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Alfs 3:41 Wed Sep 29
Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

There are so many examples, including our own Moysey.

Nuno did brilliant work at Wolves and they're already struggling since his departure, yet Spurs are going downhill, too.

Nuno improved Wolves immensely, so why isn't he doing the same at Spurs?

Pelle, who was a fucking car crash for us, seems to be doing a decent job at Real Betis.

I just don't get the logic of it all, if there is any?

Darby_ 10:54 Wed Oct 6
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

Yeah, it’s almost is if sacking a highly successful manager in November over a bad start to the season might not be in the club’s best long term interests.

eusebiovic 10:13 Wed Oct 6
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

Whatever Spurs do, they won't get back to the enjoyment and optimism that Pochettino gave them with his swashbuckling football philosophy for a very, very long time.

Even I found myself reluctantly admiring them at times during his tenure...it was certainly a throwback to the days of Glenda and Ardiles or even Gazza and Waddle in the late 80's

Capitol Man 1:46 Wed Oct 6
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

Normally a combination of talent and ability and the situation they inherit/find the,selves in - good bit of luck too.

Wasn’t Fergie basically a game away from the sack and got a lucky win in the cup - the rest being history.

Clough stands head and shoulder above the rest for me - product of his time though - it’s hard to see his style working with modern players - probably clever enough to,adjust though.

Pedro 10:36 Tue Oct 5
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

Tough question and it think it is all relative.

Some managers win trophies for big clubs with huge budgets - Pep

Some win trophies with small clubs and no money - Clough

Some play good football

Some are good at keeping teams up

Some of good at developing players and selling on for profits etc

Some good working with no budget

Some can do most of the above


The club has to find a manager that matches their own expectation and objective.

Nuno had a very defensive setup at wolves with fast attackers. Not great to watch but got some results.
Spurs fans will want to see better football but if they finish higher than wolves did has Nuno got better?

Sven Roeder 9:16 Tue Oct 5
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

Leeds was obviously a horrible error given his opinion of Revie and his Leeds cheats.
Brighton he fell into after falling out with the Derby chairman.
Both of those he took on without Peter Taylor.

What he achieved at Derby & even more so at Forest (with Taylor) was frankly astonishing.
All that he achieved at Forest should have happened for Derby.
I wonder if the Chairman regrets that.

New Jersey 9:10 Tue Oct 5
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

I don't think Clough helped himself at Leeds when he said they should chuck all their medals in the bin as they were fucking cheats or words to that effect!

Far Cough 7:45 Tue Oct 5
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

tnb, that was a good analysis but I can think of one exception to that and that is Brian Clough at Brighton and Leeds

tnb 7:23 Tue Oct 5
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

Managers tend to have an average performance - sometimes they might get lucky or unlucky and it deviates more than usual but in general leave them in place long enough and they’ll finish round about where they usually finish.

The only thing that really changes is the perception of their performance based on expectations- so a club expecting to be top 4 will get spooked quicker by a downturn as opposed to a club with lower expectations who are more likely to wait around long enough to benefit if an upturn comes. At the same time managers are obviously usually sacked at a low point so it can look as if they took a team a lot lower than they may well have finished had the owners kept their nerve.

Tottenham are 8th. The best Nuno got Wolves to finish was 7th. He’s doing what he does - the football is shit but it was also often shit at Wolves but the narrative was ‘plucky Wolves’ and so it didn’t get talked about as much. Rightly or wrongly, Tottenham expect a bit more.

Same for Moyes at Man Utd - a manager averaging about seventh place was never going to be the right fit for a club expecting to compete for the title, and even if he could have improved he was also never likely to get the time. It’s also why he’s been a dramatic improvement for us after recent seasons, but at the same time as I’ve said before it is why if we ever get to the point of aiming for the next level he also won’t be the man for us at that point either.

Even Mourinho has a well discussed pattern of early success but averages out around 3rd or 4th when he sticks around at a club for a while. And managing a less good squad when you’re used to better players is just as much of a hurdle as the other way around - so there’s no way he would have got Tottenham to 3rd or 4th but he certainly wouldn’t have finished the season where he was when he was sacked.

Managers rarely turn to shit or suddenly become great. They are however frequently wrongly appointed.

Russ of the BML 11:54 Mon Oct 4
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

Nuno had time at Wolves. A lot of what he did went under the radar for a while until their promotion. And then even when in PL they weren't expected to do well, but they did.

Got Spurs and you are in a different world. Spotlight straight on you with no time to build or create your own philosophy. Some managers can cope with that, some can't. Maybe Wolves was his level?

Nagel 5:29 Sat Oct 2
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

"Barcelona has dive-bombed since Koeman has come in."

Not really. Last season they only managed to finish 3rd, their worst placing for years. They also got thrashed 8-2 at home by Bayern Munich in the CL. So, they were already on a downward spiral before Koeman got the job.

Also, Koeman is not a good manager anyway. His last club job was at Everton, where he got sacked after dropping them to the relegation places. So in his case a mediocre manager stayed mediocre when changing clubs.

gph 4:38 Sat Oct 2
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

Probably because they are only one of the variables.

Moyes probably wasn't that bad at Sunderland, but everything else was, it dragged him down, and he got more than his fair share of the blame.

Biggest mistake was going there in the first place.

eusebiovic 2:05 Sat Oct 2
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

Because they allow their ego to overinflate their actual importance when often it's their assistant manager who is just as much a key to their success but which they only realise after endlessly taking the credit until the inevitable parting of ways comes to pass.

And money.

BRANDED 1:17 Sat Oct 2
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

Change tack or be tactful?

Jim C 1:05 Sat Oct 2
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

I also think it's down to man management as well as knowing when it's time to change tact.

I am quite heavily involved in grassroots and although the technical ability and fitness is in a different world in comparison to the top level, this applies. I once was asked to work alongside a manager and his ideas/training sessions and what he was trying to get the team to do was superb. I had more experience than him but he was way ahead of me in that aspect. The problem was the team spent most of the time taking the piss out of him and doing their own thing, so I was there to play bad cop. It worked at first but then he started resenting me and telling me I was trying to take over, which wasn't true, so in the end I left him too it and it went back to how it was.

Some managers are also been guilty of not admitting it was time to try a new approach and by the time they do, it's too late. I have been guilty of it before. Some things work with some players and not others.

Getting this balance right, I think is what distinguishes the bad, average, good and great.

Alfs 3:13 Thu Sep 30
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

Barcelona has dive-bombed since Koeman has come in. Yeah, I know they lost Messi, but still...

PwoperNaughtyButNot 6:59 Wed Sep 29
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

In a league of 20 clubs where a third have top third expectations , a third have mid table expectations and a third have avoid relation expectations there will always be good managers deemed as bad.

If the 20 best managers of all time were given equal resource 3 of them would still get relegated and the press and support would call them shit.

bill green 6:41 Wed Sep 29
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

Look at someone who has succeeded - Fat Sam.
Clubs sign him out of desperation, he manages upwards. He tells them with the crap squad you've left me I need £xm to get you up 10% and £xxm to get you up 20%.
So he sets the goals that he knows he can reach like a good sales manager.

Block 11:10 Wed Sep 29
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

All depends on the hierarchy within the club the manager moves to.

Plus, Nuno had been at Wolves for a decent amount of time, however - I know someone who works at Spurs and he said he is absolutely shit.

This person has been at Spurs since the Ramos days and seen a variety of different managers, and Nuno is so blaze about everything and there's no real structure or preparation for training etc.

GreenStreetPlayer 10:53 Wed Sep 29
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

Could be like most relationships, chemistry?
Even under this Moyes tenure, you can pin point exactly our ‘change in fortune’, when he was sidelined with covid for a couple of weeks! What happened there!
Not many positive things covid can be attributed to, but contributed perhaps towards our current one.

Takashi Miike 10:50 Wed Sep 29
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

moyes - replacing fergie, disinterested squad, has anyone succeeded there since sir alex?
nuno - jorge mendes deserves as much credit for that first season, supplying so many great players. no one will do consistently well at spurs while levy is there
pelle - do betis have a control freak owner? it's been noticeable since the PAI shit died, that the board puppets have started spinning stories again. they'll never learn

eastend joker 10:37 Wed Sep 29
Re: Why do good football managers become bad managers when they change clubs?

i think it all depends on the degree of freedom they get within a particular club on team make up and transfers ,
as has been pointed out Nuno is lumbered with Alli and Dyier , until that club moves these two and Kane on and gives the money to the manager to invest as he feels they are only going one way .

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